Star Wars Episode IX - The Rise Of Skywalker

[MT 900]

 

 

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

[Olly 39]

Spoiler

I really thought it was Mark Hamill's joker laugh at the end...  but Internet says it's Palpatine, evidently. 

Enjoyed the trailer, especially the use of the classic "Leia's Theme" music! 

 

[webhead 518]

I thought the same.  Huh.  Guess we'll see more soon enough.

[MT 900]

I didn't think that at all, not sure how people heard it.

[Mera'din 306]

Same. Thought it was pretty obvious who it was.  

[Downshift 54]

Make it stop.

[MT 900]

I got actual goosebumps watching it the second time. 

[webhead 518]

Spoiler

I really feel like using the Emperor again is lame.  Like that story was resolved when Vader rose up and kill him.  I hope there's some trickery going on here and he's not REALLY back because bleh.

 

[Lucy 108]

Spoiler

 

[Ulyster 35]

13 hours ago, webhead said:

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I really feel like using the Emperor again is lame.  Like that story was resolved when Vader rose up and kill him.  I hope there's some trickery going on here and he's not REALLY back because bleh.

 

Force ghost, maybe? Kylo is still unaware of Vaders betrayal of the Emperor, so what better way to cement the Young Skywalker's fall to the Dark Side than to show up as his idol's teacher?

[Mera'din 306]

13 hours ago, webhead said:

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I really feel like using the Emperor again is lame.  Like that story was resolved when Vader rose up and kill him.  I hope there's some trickery going on here and he's not REALLY back because bleh.

 

 

There's a lot more to him than we saw in the original movies. The remnants of the Empire that became the First Order were sent out into uncharted space because there was SOMETHING out there that was a massive source of Dark Side energy. He put a lot of time and energy into finding out how to get to it, and this is even part of why he recruited Thrawn since the Chiss live out past where core had charted space. The empire pulling itself a part and the tested remainder of it leaving was all part of a plan he laid should he ever be killed.

 

Presumably Snoke had something to do with whatever they found out there and it's hard to say with how the 2nd movie played out, but mostly it comes down to Palpatine's plans were never done with his death. Even outside of the super creepy droids running around handing out messages from him. I don't necessarily think he'll be "coming back" per se, but his machinations were far reaching. It was also kind of fit the narrative they've developed at this point too. It was revealed in the comics that the long standing rumor of Anakin's origins were true. Palpatine is (for lack of a better quantifier) basically his father. At least in the sense that he is responsible for Anakin's mother becoming pregnant.

[webhead 518]

44 minutes ago, Mera'din said:

 

 

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There's a lot more to him than we saw in the original movies. The remnants of the Empire that became the First Order were sent out into uncharted space because there was SOMETHING out there that was a massive source of Dark Side energy. He put a lot of time and energy into finding out how to get to it, and this is even part of why he recruited Thrawn since the Chiss live out past where core had charted space. The empire pulling itself a part and the tested remainder of it leaving was all part of a plan he laid should he ever be killed.

 

Presumably Snoke had something to do with whatever they found out there and it's hard to say with how the 2nd movie played out, but mostly it comes down to Palpatine's plans were never done with his death. Even outside of the super creepy droids running around handing out messages from him. I don't necessarily think he'll be "coming back" per se, but his machinations were far reaching. It was also kind of fit the narrative they've developed at this point too. It was revealed in the comics that the long standing rumor of Anakin's origins were true. Palpatine is (for lack of a better quantifier) basically his father. At least in the sense that he is responsible for Anakin's mother becoming pregnant.
 

 

 

 

Spoiler

I mean that's kind of cool but it's just like... Star wars is a big universe.  Can we please explore something new for the movies?  There's so much material in the EU but they keep mining the same stuff over and over again for the movies.  How fucking cool would it be to have a movie like KOTOR?  So many possibilities.

 

Kind of split on that you know?  More info about the Emperor is always interesting but I don't want him to still be alive after Vader's sacrifice.

 

53 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

 

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Force ghost, maybe? Kylo is still unaware of Vaders betrayal of the Emperor, so what better way to cement the Young Skywalker's fall to the Dark Side than to show up as his idol's teacher?
 

 

 

 

This would be okay.

[Mera'din 306]

This is the "Skywalker" saga though. It all ties into that and started with his machinations and it would be fitting to see it end with the culmination of them. Next trilogy should be a different thing entirely. The one being done by the Game of Thrones show runners is going to be set in the Old Republic according to an article I had read. Hope that's true because that's a really under utilized era in the new canon. 

[webhead 518]

Yes fucking please be true all of that.  I need this.  The Skywalkers movies are very played out now lol.

[Mera'din 306]

 

 

 

 

[webhead 518]

VERY curious what's going on.  Wonder if they're going to do a reversal where Rey ends up going dark and Kylo goes good.

 

Most likely the evil Rey is a fake out vision thing though.

[Mera'din 306]

One of my theories since the beginning is that they would flip them at some point (even if only temporarily), but yeah; a Luke on Degobah/Anakin on Mortis style force vision thing is what I'm honestly expecting.

 

Edit: Thinking on it some more, another possibility that I thought of is possession. Is there any precedence in the old EU for a force ghost possessing another Force user (or person or anything in general)? Because another possibility is some Darth Sidius possession shit going down. >_>

[Hikageryu 35]

On 8/26/2019 at 4:32 PM, Mera'din said:

One of my theories since the beginning is that they would flip them at some point (even if only temporarily), but yeah; a Luke on Degobah/Anakin on Mortis style force vision thing is what I'm honestly expecting.

 

Edit: Thinking on it some more, another possibility that I thought of is possession. Is there any precedence in the old EU for a force ghost possessing another Force user (or person or anything in general)? Because another possibility is some Darth Sidius possession shit going down. >_>

 

Yes there is. I recall there being a sith force ghost that took over.... i believe it was kyp duron and was attempting to fire of a planet killer weapon hidden on a lost starbase called "The Maw" that is located in a cluster of black holes in the unknown regions.  Let me check on it and ill edit in a link. 

 

Edit: i was mostly right... not outright posession but dominating influence. Kyp Durron

[MT 900]

 

C3P0 with them feels

 

[Garlic Junior 136]

I almost word-for-word agree with what MT posted in the other topic, except:

 

1) Leia

 

I think she died because she exerted all her energy, same as Luke. Regardless of if Ben got stabbed or not.

 

And 2) I just generally don't need that much explaining, so I enjoyed it more. 8.5/10 for me, buzzing to see it again

 

 

Other than that, word-for-word. The "unearned moment" was hands down the worst part. Hands down. Nobody in the cinema agreed with it.

[MT 900]

1 hour ago, Garlic Junior said:

I almost word-for-word agree with what MT posted in the other topic, except:

 

1) Leia

 

I think we both could be right, really. This movie really pointed out just how connected Rey and Ben were when they were talking to each other (him taking her necklace, and then her handing him Luke's lightsaber later on).

 

Also, the tag is "spoiler", not "spoilers" 

[Garlic Junior 136]

Whoops.

 

Still I maintain if you're in a Star Wars thread after release day, you're expecting spoilers

 

What's your ranking of the films look like now?

[Mera'din 306]

Really enjoyed it. There were a number of rough spots, but I feel like most of those were trying to recover from some of the weird story choices in TLJ, working around Carrie Fisher's death, or both. If they had a consistent script writer/story planner through all 3 movies I feel like it would have gone a LOT better, but I'm happy with what we got all things considered. They were able to do a lot more with Leia than I was expecting since they said they wouldn't CG her into it and would only make use of unused footage from the last two movies.

 

The voices of the dead Jedi encouraging Rey was a great touch too. A lot of the voices sounded familiar (I recognized some, but not all) so I looked it up after I got out of the movie and it was legitimately the actual actors and voice actors of various Jedi from previous movies/shows. Even Hayden Christiansan was part of it. Also spotted that they gave John Williams a cameo which was cool. The Storm Troopers that Rey uses the mind trick on sounded familiar too but I don't know if that was just me looking for easter eggs or not. 

[MT 900]

Someone saw RoS and there was a Q&A afterwards with the creative team

[MT 900]

Some things are explained better in the visual dictionary (SPOILERS)

 

The last one is interesting to anyone who played Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order.

[Mera'din 306]

Fekkin' knew it.

 

Also, semi-canonizing some of the EU Sith is good shit. Hope they take that further.

[MT 900]

Watched it a second time tonight, got a little further clarification on one scene in particular.

 

Before Leia reaches out to Kylo/Ben on Endor, Maz Kanata mentions something about how Leia has to use all of her strength to try and reach Ben. She reaches him enough to get him to stop for a second, and when he feels her die, that's when he loses his concentration. He'd always had a difficult time trying to kill her in the past (especially in TLJ), so he never really wanted her dead.

[webhead 518]

I liked it.  Just a hot take since I just saw it like 2 hours ago but I liked it enough.  There was a lot of just really cool stuff.

 

 

Calling herself Skywalker was really cringey.  Agreed there.

 

 

I remember a lot of people were guessing she was related to Palpatine.  Also it was a kind of lame decision to have him still be alive after all this time because it kind of makes the original trilogy pointless you know?  It was all really cool and it made sense but it just felt like a decision driven purely by nostalgia.  I liked how they explained that he just created Snoke and he was manipulating things this entire time because that only made sense if he was still around.  I'm guessing he was rescued by some machines and kept alive the entire time by them (since he was hanging off that shit until he "healed" himself.  Also watching the crazy force lightning shooting everyone was cool as fuck.

 

Stuff with Rey and Ben was good.  It was a good plot thread I liked from TLJ.  Seeing Luke again was nice too and he's much less of a dick too. . Admitting he was wrong to become an angry old hermit.

 

There's definitely a lot that was kind of undone from TLJ but they also used some of it.  I did feel like he was trying to cram the 2 movies he wanted to make into one after the second one ended up being basically nothing.  It didn't really do much for the story and was basically the slowest longest car chase ever.  I didn't hate it on my second viewing yesterday but I didn't love it (didn't hate it as much as the internet does either lol).

 

I'm also really confused as to why this movie has such a low rating.  I feel like it is people pissy about him changing shit from TLJ but it's not like that movie was a masterpiece so I don't really get it.  I do kind of wish they'd explored the concept of ending the Jedi because it was an unexpected way to go and had a ring of truth to it (you could still just have force users in general).  But whatever.  Probably do a 7 or 8 on this.  I'll have to see how I feel after time has passed.  I definitely feel like it's better than TLJ though.

 

[Garlic Junior 136]

I loved it, but I can totally accept the low rating. Major reason seems to be "it's built on a shaky foundation to begin with, watch it a second time and it all falls apart".

[webhead 518]

I will probably have a different feeling once I watch it again, of course.  There was a lot of stuff in the movie though that was just really cool to watch that I find myself wanting to see again.  I still think it's a better movie than TLJ but if you said they were both not great movies, I'd probably agree with that.

[Hikageryu 35]

Only thing i will say on this.  You have a major problem when my mother, who is not really a fan but understands star wars impact on entertainment, turns to you and goes "I didn't like it." 

 

My rating... as an action movie i give it a solid 7.5/10... as a star wars fan, i give it a 3/10.  Babu Frick and Wedge Antilles cameo was the best part.  I honestly feel sorry for the actors for having to be associated with what the disney trilogy became.  

 

That is all.

[Garlic Junior 136]

I mean... JJ Abrahams is great at starting things but not finishing then and Rian Johnson can't write a linear sentence but give him an entire story and he'll craft something unique. Putting the two of them together in a trilogy and giving JJ the finale was always gonna be a disaster 

 

I don't feel the trilogy was as bad as it almost SHOULD have been. Most of TFA was great, the last half of TLJ was incredible (come @ me bro), and ROS works if you view it as, I dunno, "Twitch Plays: Star Wars" or something.

 

A coherent trilogy, it is not.

 

But then that's the case with most trilogies (Alien, Terminator, the Prequels) really, if we're being honest. Relativity bias is causing the critical world to call for blood. Give it a few years and we'll all probably agree that these were fine movies. 

[Hikageryu 35]

I'm giving JJ a pass because I understand he was really put in an awkward position of having to please old fans and try and attract new fans. And all said and done TFA was a decent movie.  I don't condone what they did to Han and Leia at all, period.

 

And with the reports that disney went back and re-edited Abrams finished product I am curious if there actually is George Lucas version that scored the highest among test audiences. 

 

Rian Johnson needs to stay the hell away from any star wars property.  That's partly based on his reaction to the criticism.  The rest is the travesty that was TLJ. 

 

What I want to happen is Kathleen Kennedy needs to be fired. End of story there. Whoever is in next needs to Legends status this dumpster fire of a trilogy, then reinstate the EU as canon.

 

[webhead 518]

I don't know why it's so hard for them to make good Star Wars movies.  Like actually good.  They have nailed Star Wars in so many other mediums (I mean KOTOR fs was incredible and I still think one of the best Star Wars properties period).  I wish they could capture some of the magic of that extended universe in the movies.  Maybe if they finally stopped making movies about the same narrow fucking time period and redoing the same shit.  Also I think the trilogy format is a cancer to creativity here.

 

Go make cool shit about the beginnings of the Sith and all the shit we've seen in the extended universe.  REALLY jump into it.  Before the rule of two for the Sith you know?  Show some cool historical shit and show some shit in the future enough to be removed from all the Skywalkers.  The Star Wars universe is a really big place and the movies make it feel SO small.

[Hikageryu 35]

Because of idiotic statements like this. 

 

 

[Mera'din 306]

16 minutes ago, webhead said:

I don't know why it's so hard for them to make good Star Wars movies.  Like actually good.

 

They can obviously manage. Rogue One was a great movie all around. Overall I don't feel any different about the new trilogy than I did either of the others. They're fine. All 3 trilogies are best for being jumping boards for everything else that gets made. I honestly think that's why the EU (both old and new) has always been better though. Broader scope, less restrictions, more creativity (usually). Getting away from the whole 'Skywalker' scope of things can only help in terms of movies. Also, if you're going to do a trilogy maybe, I don't know, LET ONE PERSON BE IN CHARGE OF ALL OF IT?

 

It was rumored there was GOING to be a trilogy set in the Old Republic era, but the guys that were going to be doing that dropped out because they had too much on their plate. Hopefully someone else will do that though.

 

I agree that Kennedy needs to not be in charge though. Jesus fuck. They have been pulling random bits from the old EU for years. The Hammerhead cruiser, Thrawn, etc. Is she really that fucking oblivious? X_x

Maybe give Dave Filoni the reigns for story decisions? He's the best thing that's happened to Star Wars in a long time IMO, and is great at putting long running plots and story arches together. Also seems to be a fan of reviving old EU stuff where he can.

[webhead 518]

13 minutes ago, Mera'din said:

It was rumored there was GOING to be a trilogy set in the Old Republic era, but the guys that were going to be doing that dropped out because they had too much on their plate. Hopefully someone else will do that though.

Wasn't that going to be the GoT guys that completely fucked the last season beyond all expectations?  If it was them, good riddance.

 

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/game-of-thrones-creators-star-wars-trilogy-exit-1203386590/

 

Granted the first 7 seasons of GoT were obviously great (well more or less) but that last one makes me never want them to take on something I like again.

 

13 minutes ago, Mera'din said:

They can obviously manage. Rogue One was a great movie all around. Overall I don't feel any different about the new trilogy than I did either of the others. They're fine. All 3 trilogies are best for being jumping boards for everything else that gets made. I honestly think that's why the EU (both old and new) has always been better though. Broader scope, less restrictions, more creativity (usually). Getting away from the whole 'Skywalker' scope of things can only help in terms of movies. Also, if you're going to do a trilogy maybe, I don't know, LET ONE PERSON BE IN CHARGE OF ALL OF IT?

Rogue One was good I think primarily because like I said, the trilogy thing is cancer for creativity (though like you said, one director for all 3 movies or at least a fucking PLAN would have helped obviously).  Probably easier to make one good movie than try and spec out a trilogy.  Things can be like little stand alone stories.  They can also be trilogies with a fucking plan.  Or quadrilogies.  Honestly they should just start adapting book, game, and comic story lines since those are fully fleshed out.  Less chance of them doing something completely retarded.

 

13 minutes ago, Mera'din said:

I agree that Kennedy needs to not be in charge though. Jesus fuck. They have been pulling random bits from the old EU for years. The Hammerhead cruiser, Thrawn, etc. Is she really that fucking oblivious? X_x

Maybe give Dave Filoni the reigns for story decisions? He's the best thing that's happened to Star Wars in a long time IMO, and is great at putting long running plots and story arches together. Also seems to be a fan of reviving old EU stuff where he can.

Yeah if she's the one in charge and the movies are bad, she needs to not be in charge.  They need to pull from the EU because there is a shit load of very creative shit going on there.  I just feel like the movies stay in this tiny little safe area where it's the exact same shit over and over again and they never branch out into something actually different.  Like imagine seeing a movie where force users actually use all kinds of crazy powers like all the time instead of like barely at all.  Wouldn't that be fun to watch? 

[Hikageryu 35]

Like i said they need reinstate EU as canon. I would absolutely LOVE to see the x-wing series made into movies/show.  Wedge is by far my favorite character in Star Wars.

 

Imagine how epic the yuuzhan vong invasion would be as a series.

[Mera'din 306]

I honestly don't think they should. I couldn't care less about the old EU at this point. It's the reason I never got into Star Wars when I was younger. I'm all for them pulling in stuff from it for the new EU, but be realistic. That's not something they're EVER going to change due to the movies, shows, games, comics, and books that they've but a ton of money into and that they have full creative control over that will contradict that every step of the way in some cases.

[Hikageryu 35]

But think about this... how much more money would they make by even just continuing the EU? The old fans would be happy because we get to return to a universe with awesome characters and stories.  Then disney can do whatever the fuck they want with their mary sue and glaring plot holes that are worse than the death star trench run.

 

I've said it before and i'll say it again.  I want the EU to continue.  It was getting extremely interesting (at least for me). Luke finally met the person we know is going to kill him.  We started learning more about the ancient force entities (abeloth). 

 

Fun story time... so after RoS my mother asked me what was between and i told her TLJ. She didn't remember. I reminder her that we all saw it together and got sick a few days later (thanks jackass with a cold in a crowded theater).  Still no bells.  So she watches it on tv and says she still doesn't remember it.  At this point i have to bite my tongue from going "you are probably the luckiest person who has seen it then" so i just sigh.

[webhead 518]

Forgetting it isn't really surprising since almost nothing happened lmao.

 

Best thing we can hope for is that they use the EU stuff in the new canon piece by piece.  There's definitely a ton of interesting stuff and nothing says they can't use it (they're "legends" right now).  It's sad because the Star Wars universe is so fleshed out that they have endless stuff to pull from.  I'd love to see some of these book series made into movies or even tv shows and cartoons.

[Hikageryu 35]

3 hours ago, webhead said:

 

Best thing we can hope for is that they use the EU stuff in the new canon piece by piece.  There's definitely a ton of interesting stuff and nothing says they can't use it (they're "legends" right now).  It's sad because the Star Wars universe is so fleshed out that they have endless stuff to pull from.  I'd love to see some of these book series made into movies or even tv shows and cartoons.

 

They could use some stuff that has nothing to do with major storylines... i.e. The Mandolorian. So anything they can pull from EU is gonna be something minorly mentioned or from The old republic.  Because of how they introduced The First Order and basically ruined the galaxy's major players they really would have to relegate the disney trilogy to Legends status.  In the EU the empire still exists, there is a chunk of the galaxy controlled by the Imperial Remnant.

[Revolver 26]

Yeah I finally saw Ep 9 over the weekend. I thought it was decent. A fun ride at least. The trilogy as a whole was definitely a blown opportunity but it was a fun diversion for a while at least, which in the grand scheme could be worst.

 

I definitely think Kennedy needs to go and should be replaced with Filoni. Promote him to be your Feigi for Star Wars and go from there.

[Mera'din 306]

At the very least give him more stuff to be in charge of. Everything he's done has been pretty solid and been almost universally well received. I haven't seen Resistance, but I also haven't seen anyone raging over it either so it must be at least fine. Only thing of his that seemed to get railed at all was the Clone Wars movie and that seemed like it had more to do with general feelings over the direction of Star Wars in general at the time than anything else and doesn't appear to apply anymore (though it's probably still his weakest entry). 

 

Far as I know he's got full oversight on all their animated stuff now, but his work on The Mandalorian seems like proof he can handle live action stuff just as well.

[webhead 518]

14 hours ago, Revolver said:

Yeah I finally saw Ep 9 over the weekend. I thought it was decent. A fun ride at least. The trilogy as a whole was definitely a blown opportunity but it was a fun diversion for a while at least, which in the grand scheme could be worst.

 

I definitely think Kennedy needs to go and should be replaced with Filoni. Promote him to be your Feigi for Star Wars and go from there.

Perfect description of the new trilogy.  It was a fun diversion but ultimately...meh

 

9 hours ago, Mera'din said:

At the very least give him more stuff to be in charge of. Everything he's done has been pretty solid and been almost universally well received. I haven't seen Resistance, but I also haven't seen anyone raging over it either so it must be at least fine. Only thing of his that seemed to get railed at all was the Clone Wars movie and that seemed like it had more to do with general feelings over the direction of Star Wars in general at the time than anything else and doesn't appear to apply anymore (though it's probably still his weakest entry). 

 

Far as I know he's got full oversight on all their animated stuff now, but his work on The Mandalorian seems like proof he can handle live action stuff just as well.

 

I feel kinda bad for her because I'm sure it is not 100% her fault but she is presumably the one that let them start a trilogy with no fucking plan in place among other things so that definitely seems incompetent (at least as far as Star Wars is concerned).  I see she gets a LOT of hate and I never really knew who she was much except that I knew SOMEONE was responsible for how meh Star Wars is.

 

We need some new blood.  Some things I've heard about for the future are at least somewhat promising even with Kennedy still in place but I feel like they just need someone better.  They need a Feigie for Star Wars (they've even talked about having Feige take some control over Star Wars).

 

https://comicbook.com/starwars/2019/12/15/star-wars-movie-kevin-feige-status-update/

 

Let's get more Favreau and Feige up in there and bring in people with interesting ideas.  No more films about the Skywalkers.   Fuck all that.  I'd prefer we just be finished with this time period quite frankly.  They already fucked up tons of story possibilities with Luke, Jedi academies, etc so just throw the shit out and go somewhere else (reports about a movie set in the High Republic sound interesting).

[Revolver 26]

Yeah, I definitely think going far away from the Skywalker saga would be best. Definitely do past things before any Skywalker even existed. Maybe far enough down the line, like 10 years from now, they can expunge 7-9 and do a different thing like 100 years after Luke died, maybe Hamilton making an appearance as a force ghost if he’s still around.
 

but that also might be hard for people to grasp. They were alright entertaining films but definitely don’t love what they did with the post Jedi mythos.

[webhead 518]

I think people are aware there is an entire universe for Star Wars.  I get frustrated at the way Hollywood treats people like they are literally retarded and can't understand anything even a little complicated.  I think the Marvel movies, CW DC shows, and Star Trek Discovery actually show that people can handle insane comic book typethings like alternate universes and time travel just fine.  If they can handle that, making movies in a different era of the same universe should really not be a stretch.  There's just so much history to explore from the EU (even if it's non canon it can be MADE canon or modified a bit).

[Galeigh 283]

Fuck all the haters this is the best best star wars movie since the empire strikes back,

 

fucking fight me.

[webhead 518]

It was an overstuffed okay movie with some questionable decisions capping off a largely meaningless trilogy of nothing.  I don't hate it, as I think it was still better than TLJ, but I think the entire trilogy is honestly just boring.  You're probably still excited because the movie was a spectacle.  When you look back at this trilogy, it's just kinda meh.

 

Bringing the emperor back was stupid imo.

[Galeigh 283]

Even after calming down I still stand by what I said. This trilogy will age better than the original as the further we get from the bullshit criticisms the more people will see it without the biases we have right now.