Watchmen (HBO)

[MT 900]

 

Outside of the movie, I know absolutely nothing about Watchmen, but this looks pretty interesting.

[webhead 518]

I'm not sure I understand what the hell this show even is yet.  It's confusing.

[Tassifox 413]

IMDB didn't really have much that didn't sound like what we already knew from the movie. And I never read the comics either so it's just as confusing. I wiki'd it and this shed a tiny bit more light.
 

"In a lengthy Instagram post from Damon Lindelof while the show was in early production, it was revealed that the Watchmen series will not be a direct adaptation of the original source material, instead, being "remixed"; aiming to tell an entirely new story set in the world where the events of the original storyline took place.^[2] The series will also showcase different points of view, with the only characters from the original storyline on the series being Doctor Manhattan, Silk Spectre, Hooded Justice and Ozymandias.^[3][4]

 

So it sounds like they're doing this around the time after superheros get outlawed, so kinda before movie timeline I guess. Here was the overall synopsis I get from both Wiki and IMDB

"Watchmen takes place in an alternative, contemporary reality in the United States, in which masked vigilantes became outlawed due to their violent methods. Despite this, some gather around in order to start a revolution while others are out to stop it before it is too late, as a greater question rises above them all; who watches the Watchmen?"

[webhead 518]

Yeah I'm still confused.  I've read the book and I have no idea what the fuck this is lol.

 

We'll see I guess!

[MT 900]

Just watched the first episode, pretty interesting. Definitely going to watch more of it. From what i've gathered it takes place after the original story (which according to wikipedia ended in 1985, the show takes place in present day) and isn't necessarily an alternate version of the events from the comic, I think. 

[Garlic Junior 136]

I'm still interested, but confused.

[Galeigh 283]

Not being faithful to the source material? With Watchmen? Hard pass. The sheer arrogance of it is just mind boggling.

 

It's not too much of an exaggeration to say Watchmen is one of the best written comics of the last 60 years. This will end very badly. 

[Garlic Junior 136]

Why? The source material doesn't delve into a lot of the past, it's just sort of "the Minutemen existed and then the Watchmen did". Whether it's prequel, sequel or tangential stories there is a shit ton they can do without ever touching the comics.

[Galeigh 283]

2 hours ago, Garlic Junior said:

Why? The source material doesn't delve into a lot of the past, it's just sort of "the Minutemen existed and then the Watchmen did". Whether it's prequel, sequel or tangential stories there is a shit ton they can do without ever touching the comics.

Because we know all that's need about the History of the Watchmen (any more risks fucking with the canon story) and anything set AFTER it's events undermine the ending of the series and takes the wind out of Ozymandias' Genius plan and the uncertainty of Rorshach's Journal bringing it all down.

[webhead 518]

Or you could just wait to see if it's good instead of judging it based on nothing.

 

I'm sorry but Alan Moore isn't some kind of god.  Other people can write good stories with his characters as we have been doing with comic books for 80 YEARS NOW.  This Watchmen elitism stuff is getting tiring.  Don't mean to make it sound like I'm taking it out on you but I see it constantly around comic stuff and I'm sick to death of it.  Show is either going to be good or it's not.  What I don't give a flying fuck about is whether it is doing its own thing and not following the word of Alan Moore's wizard beard for approval.  Dude has refused to ever expand on or do anything with the property in the first place so you kind of have to know anything new they do is necessarily going to be a departure.  Also the original idea was a bunch of DC characters in the first place so it's not THAT sacred.

 

As far as "not following the source material" they've run out of it.  The movie was perfectly fine.  If they want to do Watchmen, they're going to have to do original stories now.  What else would you want?  Another remake of the movie that's basically a shot for shot remake of the comic?  Why?  I'd love to see something new.

[Galeigh 283]

Or just not make it? There a dozens of other properties at their disposal that could USE more expanding. Why blow money ruining something?

[Garlic Junior 136]

Cause it could be fun. The style of Watchmen alone is worth utilising, and if they didn't use the Watchmen brand but lifted the style it would just get accused of copying. It's a circular argument.

[webhead 518]

22 hours ago, Galeigh said:

Or just not make it? There a dozens of other properties at their disposal that could USE more expanding. Why blow money ruining something?

 

Why make anything then?  You have no idea how good or bad it is because you literally refuse to watch it and assume it will be bad.  As I said in my rant above, it's actually possible for people other than Alan Moore to add onto the Watchmen world as other comic book companies have been doing for decades.  This sacred cow thing is something that annoying fanboys do. If it's bad, then fine it's bad.  If it's good, then it's good.  It's not like making a bad one somehow ruins the original unless you're just being ridiculous.  The 2nd and 3rd Matrix movies were meh but the first one is still a fucking classic.  Sometimes bad adaptations get made and sometimes you get a Battlestar Galactica.  You have absolutely no idea what you are complaining about and you're really just echoing the same empty complaining that I see in every comic book news article about every comic book property.

 

Let go a little.  Have fun.  If it sucks, then stop watching it.  What you shouldn't do it just shout angrily at them from your arm chair about how DARE they try to make a new entry in the Watchmen universe because it couldn't possibly be good!  I don't know what it is about the Watchmen that makes people like this.  Maybe the story itself just attracts really fussy people (like the author himself, the king of fussiness).

[Garlic Junior 136]

You like, really hate Alan Moore huh?

[Galeigh 283]

On 10/24/2019 at 6:06 PM, Garlic Junior said:

Cause it could be fun. The style of Watchmen alone is worth utilising, and if they didn't use the Watchmen brand but lifted the style it would just get accused of copying. It's a circular argument.

I wouldn't care if they copied the style. Some really good shit jas come outta copying another style: Deadpool, Moonknight, Shazaam, fucking Goku is a straight rip off of Supermans origin,  the list goes on. 

 

Watchmen was, from start to finish, designed to be an enclosed story with a dubious ending. Expanding upon it just dimishes it. The whole style and premise, however, I can 100% get behind that being used somewhere else.   

 

Some stories just shouldn't be touched, and Watchmen is one of the. DC is already fucking it up and this shit is exacerbating the problem. Alan Moore can be a right ass, but he IS one of the best writers for comics alive right now. That's an earned rep that should be respected.

[webhead 518]

4 hours ago, Garlic Junior said:

You like, really hate Alan Moore huh?

 

Not at all!  I actually like a lot of his stuff.  He was a phenomenal writer.  He's basically a genius writer but he's a crazy angry old wizard now who hates everyone.

 

As a writer, great.  As a person...he often seems unpleasant.

 

51 minutes ago, Galeigh said:

I wouldn't care if they copied the style. Some really good shit jas come outta copying another style: Deadpool, Moonknight, Shazaam, fucking Goku is a straight rip off of Supermans origin,  the list goes on. 

 

Watchmen was, from start to finish, designed to be an enclosed story with a dubious ending. Expanding upon it just dimishes it. The whole style and premise, however, I can 100% get behind that being used somewhere else.   

 

Some stories just shouldn't be touched, and Watchmen is one of the. DC is already fucking it up and this shit is exacerbating the problem. Alan Moore can be a right ass, but he IS one of the best writers for comics alive right now. That's an earned rep that should be respected.

 

This is arbitrary.  Who cares what it was "originally designed for" if what comes after is good?  You're making judgements based simply on saying that no one ever should or could expand upon this work and I think that's just very short sighted and arbitrary.

 

Alan Moore is a great writer.  One of THE greats.  Doesn't mean NO ONE ELSE can do it.  You know, maybe this show ends up sucking.  Who knows?  I'm just not making arbitrary judgements like this is all.  Keep an open mind.  You might be surprised if you don't sit there trying to hate it simply for existing.

[Galeigh 283]

Never said I hate this. I just disagree that should have ever been made. It's toxic to the source material, like the recent Ghost Busters movie which ignores everything great about it's progenitor (I am referring to good writing over bad, and great characters instead 1 dimensional cut outs, not the fact that the new has a female cast instead of a male one) to make a quick buck. 

[webhead 518]

21 minutes ago, Galeigh said:

Never said I hate this. I just disagree that should have ever been made. It's toxic to the source material, like the recent Ghost Busters movie which ignores everything great about it's progenitor (I am referring to good writing over bad, and great characters instead 1 dimensional cut outs, not the fact that the new has a female cast instead of a male one) to make a quick buck. 

 

That's not a functionally different idea.   It shouldn't exist because nothing else ever should.

 

The newer Ghostbusters movie was bad because...it was a bad movie.  Not because they tried to make another Ghostbusters movies.

[Galeigh 283]

2 hours ago, webhead said:

 

 

The newer Ghostbusters movie was bad because...it was a bad movie.  Not because they tried to make another Ghostbusters movies.

That was kinda my point... This new series doesn't come from a good place and will be bad. Just like the newest ghost busters.

[webhead 518]

Doesn't come from a good place based on what?  It takes place years after the original series.  That's all you know lol.  How can you say it comes from a bad place based on that?

[MT 900]

[Garlic Junior 136]

First episode done. I'm enjoying it a lot so far. A kinda alien world but it's still "our" world. I feel like it's trying to say a lot about race relations but maybe being a bit too obtuse.

 

Then again I have been reading into analysis of Get Out a lot this week so I may be projecting.

 

I feel like I should be commenting on the fact it begins with a black Marshall hanging a white guy, or that the interaction between the Policeman and the guy he pulls over begins by subverting clichés but then ends in a somewhat cliché situation, but again I'm not sure if I'm projecting or if the show was just trying to be too clever about it and ended up not making a statement?

 

Also is it just me or is Milk & Hanoi bakery the exact same sets they used for the magic shop in BTVS?

[Garlic Junior 136]

 

Also it was framed as like 7K v Cops rather than racial at times. I dunno, very muddled.

 

Also "American HERO Story" seemed a... nod? dig?... at American Horror Story. Also confused me.

 

Confused. Confused sums it up.

On 10/23/2019 at 9:52 PM, Garlic Junior said:

I'm still interested, but confused.

 

[Garlic Junior 136]

Ah, I see now that it's kinda the premise.... also, lul, blue dick

[Garlic Junior 136]

On 10/26/2019 at 8:25 AM, Galeigh said:

That was kinda my point... This new series doesn't come from a good place and will be bad. Just like the newest ghost busters.

 

Wonder if this will change your mind?

 

 

[webhead 518]

That was a good video.  Glad I watched it.