Favorite and Least Favorite Metal Gear Game

[webhead 518]

Stealing Matt's topic idea for movies and converting to games.  Let's boogie.  Don't just vote, tell us WHY.

 

I'm not including Survive because no one played that game and it's stupid and pointless to ask about.

 

Favorite has to be MGS3.  The story, the characters, the jump in gameplay.  It was still fairly stealth focused then and everything about that game is so fucking memorable.  Surprisingly I'd give a second place to MGSV.  It's not a great MGS game but it was really fucking fun in general.

 

Least favorite are the Metal Gear Acid games.  I fucking hate card games and I think Chax had me try it and it was exactly what I thought it would be.

[MT 900]

MGS1 is the game that got me interested in the series, and the one i've beaten the most.

 

Never played Peace Walker, and it's pretty much pointless in the overall MGS canon.

[Galeigh 284]

I wanna contribute here but I don't really have a stake in this fight. Only Metal Gear game I ever played was the first NES title. 

[Vic Boss 610]

I took Peace Walker because it was my favourite to play, but if the wind was blowing another way I also might've taken 2 because I thought that was the best combo of gameplay and story.

 

I took 3 as my least favourite because I didn't think it had good gameplay. Too many tiny systems that affected the gameplay to keep track of

 

My choices are only out of MGS1/2/3 and PW, haven't played the rest

[webhead 518]

Guess this series wasn't as popular as I thought.

 

I'll choose something a little more mainstream for the next one probs.

[Vic Boss 610]

Give it a few days ?

[Psycho666Soldier 271]

1 hour ago, DeJaPon said:

I took Peace Walker because it was my favourite to play, but if the wind was blowing another way I also might've taken 2 because I thought that was the best combo of gameplay and story.

 

I took 3 as my least favourite because I didn't think it had good gameplay. Too many tiny systems that affected the gameplay to keep track of

 

My choices are only out of MGS1/2/3 and PW, haven't played the rest

This has to be one of the strangest MGS opinions I've ever read.  PW as your #1 and 3 as your last?  I'm not bashing, I'm just really surprised.

 

I voted 3 as best.  I have the most memories of it, I've probably played that game up and down more than the first two, and the stealth felt ultra-rewarding for me.  Loved the cutscenes, and felt it was a strong balance of story/gameplay while pushing the bar a bit too far.  Plus, some of those boss battles are a blast.

 

Portable Ops got the worst for me.  Never played it, but never had a single desire to.  Story is non-canon, Kojima had little to nothing to do with it, and anything it did nice, PW and MGS V did far better.

 

Without favoritism tied in, I think there's a strong argument for MGS V being the absolute best of the bunch.

[Ulyster 35]

MGS3 gets my vote for favorite game in the series. The story, setting, characters and everything about it nothing short of brilliance. The only gripe I have with the game is needing to constantly keep going in to the menu system to change camo. If they had a system in place where you automatically changed to the camo that gave you the highest stealth percentage, it would have made the game absolutely flawless.

 

For worst game, MGS5 takes it for me. It changed FAR too much from the Metal Gear formula where it didn't even FEEL like a Metal Gear game. It was more like if Kojima had made a Red Dead Redemption style game with a story that goes absolutely fucking nowhere. I was playing through it again recently, forcing myself to finish it just to say that I had, and I realised that I would actually rate Metal Gear Survive more than MGS5. 

[Vic Boss 610]

2 minutes ago, Psycho666Soldier said:

This has to be one of the strangest MGS opinions I've ever read.  PW as your #1 and 3 as your last?  I'm not bashing, I'm just really surprised.

 

I fucking love base-building and games with short-missions structures. Peace Walker was like cocaine.

 

Stealth isn't my favourite thing to do in video games and 3 added so much menu-hopping and small-detail mechanics to the game that it dragged the gameplay down for me, especially in comparison to how easy-to-pick-up-and-play MGS1 and 2 were.

[Psycho666Soldier 271]

8 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

MGS3 gets my vote for favorite game in the series. The story, setting, characters and everything about it nothing short of brilliance. The only gripe I have with the game is needing to constantly keep going in to the menu system to change camo. If they had a system in place where you automatically changed to the camo that gave you the highest stealth percentage, it would have made the game absolutely flawless.

 

For worst game, MGS5 takes it for me. It changed FAR too much from the Metal Gear formula where it didn't even FEEL like a Metal Gear game. It was more like if Kojima had made a Red Dead Redemption style game with a story that goes absolutely fucking nowhere. I was playing through it again recently, forcing myself to finish it just to say that I had, and I realised that I would actually rate Metal Gear Survive more than MGS5. 

But the story does go somewhere...it ties right into the rest of the series.

 

More importantly, the gameplay freedom is what makes this game so fun.  You can go in all guns blazing for some Rambo action, but the stealth was part of what made this game so fun to me.  It's not just, "get dropped in this location and linearly follow this path with the same expected enemies at the same expected turns."  You have to sneak within an open world environment, where things are moving.  You have to find the bases and scout them out before you decide how to infiltrate.  You have to watch out for patrol troops and guard stations that might spot you free-wheeling in the desert.

 

I don't disagree it's very different from most Metal Gear games, but I feel this was Kojima's way of making a new game that combines the best of previous iterations with a whole new way to play the game, instead of creating something that was a carbon copy of what came before.

 

3 minutes ago, DeJaPon said:

 

I fucking love base-building and games with short-missions structures. Peace Walker was like cocaine.

 

Stealth isn't my favourite thing to do in video games and 3 added so much menu-hopping and small-detail mechanics to the game that it dragged the gameplay down for me, especially in comparison to how easy-to-pick-up-and-play MGS1 and 2 were.

I'm surprised you got into the MGS series at all if you're not big into stealth.  How did you manage to get so much love for MGS2?

[webhead 518]

20 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

I realised that I would actually rate Metal Gear Survive more than MGS5

 

Hey whoa now.  Come on.

 

I'm with @Psycho666Soldier on this one.  There are a lot of changes to the MGS "formula" per se but the nonsense story ties right in with all the other nonsense stories and the gameplay freedom is so nice.  I liked that there were multiple approaches for each thing.  You could still do it stealthily if you wanted and that lives up to the spirit of things while giving you a LOT more to do in general than JUST sneaking around.  I'm actually hankering the play it again and bought it cheap on PC a little while back.

[Psycho666Soldier 271]

One thing I loved about the extra freedom was if I completely fucked up my stealth run, I felt like there was a good chance of fighting my way out in a completely different style.  Mind you, I would usually fight my way out until I got to a good hiding spot, but it was nice that the game could change gears at the flip of coin.

 

Also, this comic accurately explains what this can be like some times:

 

[webhead 518]

100% accurate

 

Sometimes I'd restart the mission though.

[Vic Boss 610]

I played the games long after the fact and somewhat knew the synopsis going in. I was expecting to hate MGS2 because the story is so whack and expecting to love MGS3 because the story is so good, but the opposite ended up happening because MGS2 was just so easy to play and made stealth as a skillset easy to apply and if you fucked up, it's because you need to do it better and it'll just drop you in a spot to try again, whereas MGS3 added the menus and stamina maintenance to it, so if you fuck up, it's because you need to do better but first you have to go into the menu and fiddle with options and make sure you've got enough stamina/stamina recovery. It's sort of like how Mass Effect 2 removed the menu bloat and made the gameplay of ME2 smoother, but in reverse.

 

In Peace Walker's case I wasn't really expecting much of anything from it, so getting ambushed by bite-sized gameplay and base-building felt great.

[webhead 518]

MGS3 definitely does not have the most perfect gameplay.  Some of those elements got annoying.  I agree with USSJ though that an auto camo thing would have really been nice.

 

I'd also just drop the fucking stamina completely.  It wasn't TOO hard to deal with (though I didn't play on hard) but it was still an annoyance.

[MT 900]

33 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

For worst game, MGS5 takes it for me. It changed FAR too much from the Metal Gear formula where it didn't even FEEL like a Metal Gear game. It was more like if Kojima had made a Red Dead Redemption style game with a story that goes absolutely fucking nowhere. I was playing through it again recently, forcing myself to finish it just to say that I had, and I realised that I would actually rate Metal Gear Survive more than MGS5. 

I never got the "this doesn't feel like MGS" feeling when I played the game. It is a bit of a departure from the others for sure, but like Psycho666Soldier said, it just took MGS and put it into a real open world. My main complaint about 5 is that it was never truly finished, and never will be either thanks to Konami fucking things up. 

[Psycho666Soldier 271]

6 minutes ago, DeJaPon said:

I played the games long after the fact and somewhat knew the synopsis going in. I was expecting to hate MGS2 because the story is so whack and expecting to love MGS3 because the story is so good, but the opposite ended up happening because MGS2 was just so easy to play and made stealth as a skillset easy to apply and if you fucked up, it's because you need to do it better and it'll just drop you in a spot to try again, whereas MGS3 added the menus and stamina maintenance to it, so if you fuck up, it's because you need to do better but first you have to go into the menu and fiddle with options and make sure you've got enough stamina/stamina recovery. It's sort of like how Mass Effect 2 removed the menu bloat and made the gameplay of ME2 smoother, but in reverse.

 

In Peace Walker's case I wasn't really expecting much of anything from it, so getting ambushed by bite-sized gameplay and base-building felt great.

I honestly don't even remember the stamina being much of an issue.  Though that could be a good argument for not having it in the game at all.  And I definitely agree on the camo.

 

That said, I don't think the menus ruin the "it's because you fucked up" feel.

[Ulyster 35]

2 hours ago, Psycho666Soldier said:

But the story does go somewhere...it ties right into the rest of the series.

No, it doesn't. And it only ties in at the very VERY end, but not because of anything important that happened during the game.

 

What happens to Sahelanthropus after Eli (Young Liquid) and the Third Child (Young Psycho Mantis) take it?

What happens to the vial of the English Voice Parasite that they take?

 

Nothing happens to these points. They're immediately dropped. Yes, I know the 'True' ending has both be bombed to hell and back, but you only see that if you bought the collectors edition in a video. As far as the game is concerned, it ends after Quiet says goodbye and you find out that you're not actually Big Boss which, yes, is how it ties in to the rest of the series (Venom Snake dies in Metal Gear, the Real Big Boss survives, etc).

 

2 hours ago, Psycho666Soldier said:

 It's not just, "get dropped in this location and linearly follow this path with the same expected enemies at the same expected turns."  You have to sneak within an open world environment, where things are moving.

No, instead you're dropped into a location and told to navigate around enemies within a preset area that follow strict and predictable patrol paths. Wait...

 

2 hours ago, Psycho666Soldier said:

 You have to find the bases and scout them out before you decide how to infiltrate.  You have to watch out for patrol troops and guard stations that might spot you free-wheeling in the desert.

No you don't. Of all your companions, D-Dog is the only one who is actually any good, and he let's you know if anyone is within a certain range of you (I forget the exact distance). You don't need to scout anything. Just crouch-walk your way everywhere, tranq everyone you come across and fulton them out. Easy.

 

2 hours ago, webhead said:

Hey whoa now.  Come on.

I'm being completely serious.

Have you played Metal Gear Survive? It's actually a solid survival game. At least it knows what it wants to be. MGS5 suffers from a major identity crisis. Is it a stealth game? Is it an action-adventure game? Is it a crafting game? It's trying to be all of these things. Here are my main issues with MGS5:

 

1. The story reveals:

Everyone had an issue with the hour-long codec sequences of the older games, but at least they told you the story as you were going along, filling you in on everything. You have to actively go out of your way to listen to very specific tapes if you want to be brought up to speed. Want to know who the Man On Fire is? Listen to a tape. Want to know if Eli is Venom Snakes clone? Listen to a tape. Want to know what happened to Chico and Paz? On a tape. Which ones? Fuck knows, they're in the list somewhere. Look for the yellow ones.

 

2. The gameplay loop:

This was very disjointing, and probably annoyed me the most. Select a mission from the list, get dropped somewhere, finish mission, get picked up, watch credits, get debriefed, repeat. It just doesn't flow at all, and it's this is which grinds my 'doesn't feel like MGS' gears the most. I can put up with having to actually search for the story. I can live with essentially having infinite ammo now thanks to the air-support. But don't split the campaign up into an extremely shitty version of the way GTA does it. Just... don't.

 

3. The weapon crafting/upgrading system

What? Why? Why do I have to search out certain plants to make a better tranq gun? Shit, why do I need to do this to make a tranq sniper-rifle in the first place? I also have to kidnap a certain number of skilled people, and build more Mother Base platforms so I can house these people, to level up that department in order to research this gun? Are we actually inventing these weapons? 

 

4. Important Side-Ops

More of a minor gripe, this. But you know the side-ops I'm talking about. The yellow ones. Side-ops are supposed to be optional, but if you want to actually finish the game, you HAVE to do the yellow side-ops. Don't put mandatory story missions in the 'optional missions' list. Dragon Age Inquisition does something similar to this as well, and it's annoying as shit.

 

 

[webhead 518]

13 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

1. The story reveals:

Everyone had an issue with the hour-long codec sequences of the older games, but at least they told you the story as you were going along, filling you in on everything. You have to actively go out of your way to listen to very specific tapes if you want to be brought up to speed. Want to know who the Man On Fire is? Listen to a tape. Want to know if Eli is Venom Snakes clone? Listen to a tape. Want to know what happened to Chico and Paz? On a tape. Which ones? Fuck knows, they're in the list somewhere. Look for the yellow ones.

 

That's all background though.  You don't actually NEED that to get the main story of the game.  It just adds to it. There is still a lot of weird shit going on in the foreground that tells the story of the game and it's VERY MGS-y.  I can understand your objections here but I don't think the story sucks or doesn't exist because of the stuff on the tapes...that being said maybe it's because I listened to each tape as I got it that changes my perspective?  It all kind of blends together with me so maybe when I play through it again at some point I'll have more specific thoughts.

 

15 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

2. The gameplay loop:

This was very disjointing, and probably annoyed me the most. Select a mission from the list, get dropped somewhere, finish mission, get picked up, watch credits, get debriefed, repeat. It just doesn't flow at all, and it's this is which grinds my 'doesn't feel like MGS' gears the most. I can put up with having to actually search for the story. I can live with essentially having infinite ammo now thanks to the air-support. But don't split the campaign up into an extremely shitty version of the way GTA does it. Just... don't. 

 

This is hard to really complain about.  Part of this is because you go back to mother base to do stuff and you want to do that here and there anyway.  It would be nice to have the option to stay in the field and do the next mission (or take several at once).  I thought at points you did actually get to do that but I can understand this complaint.  As someone who doesn't ever finish GTA campaigns or like them all that much, I'd have to disagree with calling it a shitty version of GTA.  It has its problems but I don't really see it.  I guess this really did not bother me as much as you for whatever reason.

 

17 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

3. The weapon crafting/upgrading system

What? Why? Why do I have to search out certain plants to make a better tranq gun? Shit, why do I need to do this to make a tranq sniper-rifle in the first place? I also have to kidnap a certain number of skilled people, and build more Mother Base platforms so I can house these people, to level up that department in order to research this gun? Are we actually inventing these weapons? 

 

I actually enjoyed this.  It's a gameplay system I tend to enjoy.  Gave me stuff to work towards (and it wasn't just plans, there were parts and shit you needed to do things for).  It's a series of fetch quests in a sense, perhaps, but it gives you some goals to go for.  I remember specifically going for the sniping tranq and then the silencer for it as soon as I could.  I liked it.  The skilled people thing didn't bother me either.  At first it was a bit much but I got the hang of it and I parachuted out a lot of people too. Especially since I took great pains to tranq people and not get alerts.  Some of this stuff you're just being nitpicky though.  It's a videogame.  THAT is why you have to do the things. I can understand that it's annoying that it takes so much effort for things though.  I found that I didn't necessarily have to go that far out of my way as I engaged with all the mechanics in the game at once as I went through the game.  It flowed pretty well for me.  I also sat there inspecting the help for an amount of time that is actually surprising to me.  I don't know why that didn't bother me.  I can completely understand why you may not love that.

 

21 minutes ago, Ulyster said:

4. Important Side-Ops

More of a minor gripe, this. But you know the side-ops I'm talking about. The yellow ones. Side-ops are supposed to be optional, but if you want to actually finish the game, you HAVE to do the yellow side-ops. Don't put mandatory story missions in the 'optional missions' list. Dragon Age Inquisition does something similar to this as well, and it's annoying as shit.

 

Its been a while so I don't remember this.  More details in spoilers maybe?

[Ulyster 35]

 

1 hour ago, webhead said:

 

That's all background though.  You don't actually NEED that to get the main story of the game.  It just adds to it. There is still a lot of weird shit going on in the foreground that tells the story of the game and it's VERY MGS-y.  I can understand your objections here but I don't think the story sucks or doesn't exist because of the stuff on the tapes...that being said maybe it's because I listened to each tape as I got it that changes my perspective?  It all kind of blends together with me so maybe when I play through it again at some point I'll have more specific thoughts.

If you only want the very basic story details, then yes, you can skip the tapes entirely. If you want things to actually make sense, you need to listen to them.

 

The Metal Gear Solid mainline games have always been about giving you all of the story beats - major, subtle, and otherwise - on a plate, when they would make the most impact.

 

1 hour ago, webhead said:

This is hard to really complain about.  Part of this is because you go back to mother base to do stuff and you want to do that here and there anyway.  It would be nice to have the option to stay in the field and do the next mission (or take several at once).  I thought at points you did actually get to do that but I can understand this complaint.  As someone who doesn't ever finish GTA campaigns or like them all that much, I'd have to disagree with calling it a shitty version of GTA.  It has its problems but I don't really see it.  I guess this really did not bother me as much as you for whatever reason.

To be fair, you don't have to go back to mother base after every mission, you can just leave the area. You DO have to get in the helicopter though to accept new missions, and to build new platforms on mother base. Most of my complaint about this issue could be fixed by just letting you select the next mission while you're on the ground, and then riding there or something. The fact that you HAVE to travel to some sort of 'mission hub' every time is why I'm calling it a shitty version of the GTA mission system.

 

The Metal Gear Solid mainline games have always been about letting the gameplay flow from one place to another without unnecessary interruption.

 

2 hours ago, webhead said:

 

I actually enjoyed this.  It's a gameplay system I tend to enjoy.  Gave me stuff to work towards (and it wasn't just plans, there were parts and shit you needed to do things for).  It's a series of fetch quests in a sense, perhaps, but it gives you some goals to go for.  I remember specifically going for the sniping tranq and then the silencer for it as soon as I could.  I liked it.  The skilled people thing didn't bother me either.  At first it was a bit much but I got the hang of it and I parachuted out a lot of people too. Especially since I took great pains to tranq people and not get alerts.  Some of this stuff you're just being nitpicky though.  It's a videogame.  THAT is why you have to do the things. I can understand that it's annoying that it takes so much effort for things though.  I found that I didn't necessarily have to go that far out of my way as I engaged with all the mechanics in the game at once as I went through the game.  It flowed pretty well for me.  I also sat there inspecting the help for an amount of time that is actually surprising to me.  I don't know why that didn't bother me.  I can completely understand why you may not love that.

I enjoy this kind of gameplay system as well. I love survival games, and I love games where you have to grind your way up a tech tree to get better stuff. It does not belong in a Metal Gear Solid mainline game though. This is why I don't like it.

 

Look, when Metroid Prime was first announced, I imagine a few people were concerned about it. A 2D sidescroller being turned into a FPS? That's not what Metroid is! But they kept the core gameplay faithful to the sidescrollers. You were doing the exact same things, you were looking for system upgrades, which would let you access areas you couldn't get to before, secret areas with health upgrades,etc. It still FELT like a Metroid game, just in 3D and from a first-person perspective.

 

If the only change in MGS5 was that it was open world, but everything else was kept the same, I would have far fewer complaints against it. But SO many things were changed, it no longer feels like a MGS game to me. There are no codec convos, there are no awesome boss fights (it has, what, 2 bosses?), certainly no interesting bosses, there is no interesting main villain, there is no interesting setting, gameplay is broken up in to chunks. If you can see past these things, if you don't see an issue in the first place, that's fine. But most of the things that I play an MGS game for are not in this game.

 

3 hours ago, webhead said:

Its been a while so I don't remember this.  More details in spoilers maybe?

 

I mean, there isn't really much more to explain. There are missions listed in the 'optional' mission list, that are actually 'mandatory'. You want more details than that? ?

 

[webhead 518]

3 hours ago, Ulyster said:

If you only want the very basic story details, then yes, you can skip the tapes entirely. If you want things to actually make sense, you need to listen to them.

 

The Metal Gear Solid mainline games have always been about giving you all of the story beats - major, subtle, and otherwise - on a plate, when they would make the most impact.

 

What makes sitting around listening to audio tapes fundamentally different from sitting around listening to codec conversations?  The non codec stuff is pretty much the same as any MGS game imo.

 

3 hours ago, Ulyster said:

To be fair, you don't have to go back to mother base after every mission, you can just leave the area. You DO have to get in the helicopter though to accept new missions, and to build new platforms on mother base. Most of my complaint about this issue could be fixed by just letting you select the next mission while you're on the ground, and then riding there or something. The fact that you HAVE to travel to some sort of 'mission hub' every time is why I'm calling it a shitty version of the GTA mission system.

 

The Metal Gear Solid mainline games have always been about letting the gameplay flow from one place to another without unnecessary interruption.

 

Just to be clear here, I think you have a valid complaint and good ideas on how it could be better.  I just don't think this is bad enough that it makes the game bad.  That's all I'm saying.  It's an annoyance, but it did not impact my enjoyment of the game in any meaningful way.  To each their own but I have a hard time understanding why that would ruin anything you know?

 

3 hours ago, Ulyster said:

I enjoy this kind of gameplay system as well. I love survival games, and I love games where you have to grind your way up a tech tree to get better stuff. It does not belong in a Metal Gear Solid mainline game though. This is why I don't like it.

 

Look, when Metroid Prime was first announced, I imagine a few people were concerned about it. A 2D sidescroller being turned into a FPS? That's not what Metroid is! But they kept the core gameplay faithful to the sidescrollers. You were doing the exact same things, you were looking for system upgrades, which would let you access areas you couldn't get to before, secret areas with health upgrades,etc. It still FELT like a Metroid game, just in 3D and from a first-person perspective.

 

If the only change in MGS5 was that it was open world, but everything else was kept the same, I would have far fewer complaints against it. But SO many things were changed, it no longer feels like a MGS game to me. There are no codec convos, there are no awesome boss fights (it has, what, 2 bosses?), certainly no interesting bosses, there is no interesting main villain, there is no interesting setting, gameplay is broken up in to chunks. If you can see past these things, if you don't see an issue in the first place, that's fine. But most of the things that I play an MGS game for are not in this game.

 

See in my mind, this is MGS + other stuff rather than "Not MGS" as you're viewing it.  Many of the elements of MGS are still intact in a different way but ultimately, you want stealth?  You can play it as a stealth game.  The other systems on top are simply on top of the game.  Instead of randomly finding the Stinger missile at a certain point in the game, you unlock it by actually doing something.  The move to an open world necessitated that certain paradigms had to change to suit it.

 

Boss fights and such you might be right about.  That is probably THE most un-MGS-like part of the game.  I don't remember boss fights at all which fairly well tells you all you need to know. I really just remember fighting those crazy fucking soldier alien whatever the fuck things.  So bosses and main villains are not in the forefront like a typical MGS game I'll definitely give you.  It changes how the game feels.

 

I still think in general the game was immensely fun.  More than I was expecting.  Saying it's bad "as an MGS game" is a puzzling sentiment to me.  Did you like the game?  Then it was a good MGS game in my mind.  It's actually nice to see it makes some big changes.  There's a reason I only played Far Cry 3 and still haven't been back to the series since then.  They're all the same shit, different day.

[Ulyster 35]

11 hours ago, webhead said:

What makes sitting around listening to audio tapes fundamentally different from sitting around listening to codec conversations?  The non codec stuff is pretty much the same as any MGS game imo.

What makes reading Destiny Codex entries on a website fundamentally different to reading Destiny Codex entries in game? It breaks story immersion. You have to actively stop playing the game to search out this information to bring context to things. It also breaks your connection with the main character. The reason why plot twists and such work is because you find them out at the same time as the protagonist. But in this case, you find out all this information after Snake does because he was there when the tape was recorded. And you're listening to it while he's just stood around on Mother Base, or sat chillin' in the helicopter. Hell, I don't mind the IDEA of the tapes. If you forgot a plot point or whatever and want to go back to remind yourself about it, they're great for that. But at least have us actually THERE during the recording session. They actually do this a couple of times, when interrogating Huey, and then again with Eli, and it's MUCH more impactful as a story device. This is what the codec conversations were, and what the tapes aren't.

 

11 hours ago, webhead said:

 I just don't think this is bad enough that it makes the game bad.  That's all I'm saying.  It's an annoyance, but it did not impact my enjoyment of the game in any meaningful way.  To each their own but I have a hard time understanding why that would ruin anything you know?

 

Because it's not what the previous MGS games did. I bought this game for the classic MGS experience, and it did not deliver.

11 hours ago, webhead said:

See in my mind, this is MGS + other stuff rather than "Not MGS" as you're viewing it. 

MGS3 was MGS + other stuff, with the stamina bar, with the surgery screen, with the camo switching, with the animal trapping. And it felt great because the core gameply was unchanged. You had one goal, one villain, and the entire game was building up to you getting face to face with them for a good old fashioned showdown. MGS5 had a bunch of padded missions that were either remixes of previous missions, only with added prefixes such as [Total Stealth] or whatever, or missions that were straight up "Well, we're after Skull Face, but we don't know where he is yet, so lets just go and eliminate this random dude because somebody has paid us to do it."

 

And then you don't even fight Skull Face! You don't even kill him! He gets injured through happenstance, and then Huey finishes him off. Talk about anti-climactic

 

12 hours ago, webhead said:

Saying it's bad "as an MGS game" is a puzzling sentiment to me.  Did you like the game?  Then it was a good MGS game in my mind. 

 

How much of a shitstorm would have been caused if, back when Hyrule Warriors was first released, it was announced that it was actually the next canonical entry in the Zelda universe? It was a fun game and I enjoyed it, just like many others did (Shit, you even got to play AS GANON, which was a surprising change). But enough for it to sit in the main timeline? No. Nobody would have liked that. Keep Hyrule Warriors as a spin-off, leave the mainline for the REAL Zelda games. That's how I feel about MGS5. It should have been a spin-off.

[MT 900]

4 hours ago, Ulyster said:

What makes reading Destiny Codex entries on a website fundamentally different to reading Destiny Codex entries in game? It breaks story immersion. You have to actively stop playing the game to search out this information to bring context to things. It also breaks your connection with the main character.

Maybe I just don't get into the games the way you do, but I never felt disconnected from Venom Snake while listening to the tapes. I also didn't have to stop playing the game to listen to a lot of those tapes, I did it while fucking around in the open world. I do get the point you're trying to make though, but I don't feel like it's as ruinous to the game as you do. Difference of opinion, I guess.  

[webhead 518]

Yeah sometimes I'd sit in motherbase and listen and other times I'd be running around a mission doing shit while I listened like Bioshock.